We took delivery last Sunday of brand-new TNT spreaders and Cutters, and a new pump. The new cutters cut 325,000 psi - and are strong enough to cut the new boron steel found in newer automobile roll bars. Unfortunately, those new cutters are pretty hefty. We haven't had any problems with our TNT tools and pump, and are quite satisfied with the new tools.

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EVFD E12, R12

Austin FD has been using TNT tools for a few years.  The only problem I have personally experienced with them is that the small bolts used to secure the motor/pump assembly to the cage tend to back out.  A loose bolt might not be that big a problem, except that these particular bolts, for reasons known but to God and TNT, go all the way in to the fluid reservoir.  Consequently, when the normal vibration from use and/or driving causes the bolts to back out, the hydraulic fluid drains into the slide-out shelf.  Now, this wouldn't be that big a problem, except that there's no convenient method of getting the hydraulic fluid from the slide-out tray back into the fluid reservoir.  We've thought about some kind of drain with a valve and hose, but we were too lazy, so we settled on checking the bolts every damn day.

First, the bolts shouldn't back out that easily.  Second, the bolts are stainless steel and the reservoir is aluminum (I think) - I'm surprised we haven't stripped the aluminum yet. 

Having said all that, the fellas at Operations Support (the fancy name we call the guys who research and buy our tools and toys) actually had several vendors bring their products to a junk yard here, and some of our companies got to play with the tools.  The TNT products we have are the result of this testing and evaluation process. 

Except for the bolts backing out, I haven't had a single problem with the tools.  Oh...and if you inadvertently charge the line while there's no tool attached, it will hose all the fluid out on the ground.  Important safety tip - don't flip the lever until everything's connected.  Duh.

stay safe - thum

Preyn2 - Just curious, have you guys tried taking the bolts out and putting some lock-tight or something else of that nature on the threads of the bolts, and then screwing them back in?  If so, has that helped at all?

We have some TNT's on our medical/mini-rescue truck.  We have a set of JAWS, cutters, and a ram, w/ an extention or two for the ram.  We have not had any problems with them, besides some minor operator error that was corrected w/in a matter of a few seconds.

We do have a set of diesal powered Hurst's on our rescue-engine that's nothing but a hunk of shit.  To start the damn things, we have to push a button or two, pull a lever or two, and than swing a crank (like on a Model T).  If you can't get the damn things started before the crank locks up, you have to re-due everything all over, until you get them started.  We have a combi tool, cutters, and three different rams.  The combi tool is a piece of shit too.  We can't seem to get a good bite on anything, when we're trying to spred w/ them.  I've played w/ a few sets of combi tools of all different brands at a few extrication classes and demo's, and they were good.  Nothing at all like the ones we have.

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"It's better to be pissed off, then pissed on!"

"Take care and stay safe everyone!"

"The combi tool is a piece of shit too.  We can't seem to get a good bite on anything, when we're trying to spred w/ them"

 

Bad tool, or lack of experience on the operator?

I've found that a well trained ladder man can get alot done even with less than optimum tools.

If It wont bite, get a better purchase point.

 

Jeff

JHamm - That's the issue.  We've tried everything, different purchase points, angles, positions, etc.  Some of our guys are on other Dept's.  Some of those Dept's that the guys are on, have combi tools, and some of us have gone to extrication classes (like I stated earlier), and all of us loved the combi tools that we worked w/ at the classes and/or love the combi tools at the other Dept's.  It just seems to be this certain one that sucks.  The power unit works well and seems to have enough power, once we get it fired up.

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"It's better to be pissed off, then pissed on!"

"Take care and stay safe everyone!"

At the risk of asking the obviously stupid question, have you changed the tips on the spreaders?  I didn't realize how much of a difference it would make until I did it one time. 

As far as the Lock-Tite, we thought about it briefly, but by the time we knew what the problem was, the female threads of the pump reservoir were already "contaminated" with the mineral oil that drained through it.  Consequently, we figured that the Lock-Tite probably wouldn't grab, so we didn't even try.  Did we underestimate the thread locking capability of Lock-Tite?

We use Hurst hydrualic tools. You guys are right about how heavy they are. You are also right on how powerfull they are. I love em. Did anyone want to discus bags or stabalization. We use Paratech high pressure bags, they work great. For stabalization, we use Rescue42. The struts are lightweight composite, have large pins that are no problem for gloved mitts. Do any of you midwest posters buy from 5alarm in Fort Atkinson? If so, have you been to their two day extrication class? They run it twice a year and I got to go once. The automobile industry keeps coming out with new SRS and hybrid crap so that it is tough to keep up. Of course we haven't even touched on the dangers of the damn thing being on fire,but i guess that's another thread.

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Never Pet A Burning Dog

 We have been using Amkus tools since the mid 70s. The downtown company has had Hurst tools. I've used both and my vote is for Amkus. I like the twist controls better than the thumb switch. The weight issue isn't as big as it used to be, the early Hurst tools need 2 men and a boy to opperate plus a relief crew if you were doing more than a door pop. Durrabitity has been good. Amkus fluid is mineral oil.

We just put a new rescue in service and it has  the new Amkus Ultimat System. Its a high capacity PTO pump that can power up to 6 tools at once (we have 4 tools set up on reels and ready to go) with no switching from the red line to the blue line during an extrication. The driver engages the PTO and turns on the lines for the reels that are pulled, after that they are all live just go to work. The pump also has the capacity to run the 30kw hydrolic generator at the same time. The tool also run much faster on the new system. When we were demoing the system we made 6 cuts on one A post in the time we made 1 on the other side using the same model cutters on our old 2 tool gas powered unit with 100' of hose. There's no noticable lag time with The Ulimat System, turn the controls and the tools move. The Ultimat System isn't cheep but we figured we save more lives at extrications than fires and timely extrication makes a differance.

Our department uses TNT.  Our latest set-up on our heavy rescue has the tools on the front bumper powered by an electric powerplant (TNT ET 6.0).  The electric power comes from an Onan 30 kW PTO genterator and the tools are on 100' reels.  The cutter is a C-25 and the spreader is a S-32.  We've had excellent success with them.  The only issue we've had is the delay caused by hose expansion and the electric power plant causes the tools to kick over from the first stage to the second a few seconds eariler than if we had a diesel power plant (DT 6.0) making the wait a little longer until the tools are at full force.  That being said, the electric powerplant is nearly maintenance free compared to the diesel.  I think we only loose 3-5 seconds at the most on case hardened and HSLA steel components with the electric compared to the diesel.  Because of its simplicity and ease of use, I recommend the ET powerplant. 

Obviously the 100' reels will cause a longer delay than the 30' hoses, but we don't have to deploy the gas powerplant as our primary option (we have a back-up system with smaller back up tools for redundancy) which saves time.  We just pick up the tools and run.  The engineer only has to flip two switches and we're off to the races. 

We also have a slide-out tray on the back of our rig that has a complete set of Res-Q-Jack 4-point combination jacks for vehicle stabilization and lifting (or other tech rescue applications).  For heavier vehicle like semis, we use Air Shore struts with rhino heads.

MP

We use Phoenix hydraulic tools on 14 Ladder Co's, 2 Rescue Co's, some ARFF trucks, and for USAR.  These tools have been used for several years here and there have been multiple cases of tool failures on incidents here in the city.  This includes tools not functioning at incidents, hoses blowing off, tips failing and in some cases striking firefighters.  This may be a result of how often they are used but it seems that the failures are all too common.  A committee of experienced personnel was put together to review and select the best hydraulic tool for the department and surprisingly enough, Phoenix was not the tool selected.  However, Phoenix is the tool that the city decided to keep.  I have used these Phoenix tools on multiple occasions and never experienced one of these failures but from what I hear, it happens more than it should.  I have also had experience with Hurst and Holmatro and both seem to be superior tools to Phoenix. 

 Has anyone else had experiences of failures like this?   

Our department uses Holmatro and have been happy with performance and quality. We also have a battery operated Holmatro we use for light duties i.e. car fire hoods or a minor damage mvc with a jambed door. The man makes the tool, an indian can skin and quarter a buffalo with a butter knife.

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If you think you can or can't, you're right.

Trust me Brothers, use the tools designed by the people who brought you Blitzkrieg and the Panzer. LUKAS. Makers of Hurst components for years and now owned by Hurst and marketed as Hurst High Pressure. Lukas is the last set of tools you will buy. We have a power unit and tools bought in 1983 that are still rated at full power. Maintenance and repair issues are few and now that Hurst reps them, easy to address. Maybe heavy, but better a tool that can crush all before it than a light tool that doesn't work.  Lets Safen Up out there!